My favorite thing about this piece is just how exactly you made the case.
I mean, we've all read the "you should get off TikTok," and the encouragement to be more ambitious, and the "our jobs suck now." That stuff.
But the way you made the case was much more compelling - like, you have made it look absolutely silly and depressing to sit around wasting one's time. Which is a good thing.
In my own case, I'm not an ambitious person by nature. I'm just terrified, to my core, of waking up a year from now having done nothing. Therefore, I refuse to waste my time. I insist on trying interesting stuff.
Not to be dramatic, but I think this is the article I was looking for when I started subscribing to Substacks.
Desk-job induced apathy is such a struggle for me right now and it is so hard to find people writing about it. One reason might be reluctance of people who have easy, high-paying jobs with a nice-enough boss, to say that it can still be a miserable experience. A lot of people might dismiss that as whiny when there are people who can barely afford rent and food.
I have tried leaning into doing the bare-minimum at a job I don't care about but that gives me a healthy salary and benefits. But the expectation that I be accessible most of the normal 8-hour day even if I'm not doing any real work means that I still don't have the brain space to pursue my interests. It is hard to really engage with a book if I've got an ear open for a Slack notification. I work in tech and there are not any part-time developer jobs but I would absolutely kill for one.
It's interesting you mention index funds -- having money set aside for retirement is a major reason I stick with the career I've got, plus health insurance and housing costs. My tech job isn't UBI, it's got a 40 hours of availability and ~15 hours of work requirement attached.
I was just chatting with some friends about this exact topic, and then I came across this piece—talk about a sign! It's really thought-provoking and has me re-evaluating some of my own decisions. Thanks for sharing!
I enjoy my easy email job and like spending my time reading Young Money and many other blogs/newletters to pass the time (including during work hours). I also enjoy streaming mindless movies, shows and sporting events. Call me a loser but I rather chill instead of learning a different languages (I've learned 3), playing a musical instrument (played for 15 years), start a business (too much work) or other more "productive" activities. I did the Top MBA thing, did the management consulting gig then started climbing the corporate ladder but stepped off that fast track train in my 30s. Enjoying my family, getting plenty of sleep, exercising, doing some travelling (not as much as I'd like due to family needs) and having plenty of time to chill might be apathy but it suits me and my loved ones just fine. I won't have much of a legacy but who does? Outside the 1 in a billion like Ghandi or Einsten, is anyone really remembered a few years after they die? Will anyone really remember who the senior partners at Mckinsey were 10 years after they leave? Did those folks really make even a somewhat meaningful contribution to society (I sure those narrcisits think they have).
I don't mean to sound negative or troll this post. But not everyone needs lofty goals, the need to feel hyper-productive or "live life to the max". In the end, it's all about living a life without regret. I'm enjoying my email job and life of chill. Maybe I'll get restless after a few more years of this but I ain't changing it now cause I'm still enjoying it.
I don't think you're trolling. In fact, it sounds like you did it right. Learning 3 languages, playing an instrument, starting a business, and enjoying your family is far from apathetic.
More importantly, it sounds like you chose your life instead of sleepwalking into it.
Hi Jack, I really appreciate this piece. The horror of wasting away our lives because we can is real - I have thought a lot about this, since I am prone to being passive and lazy when I get the chance to be. As you correctly diagnose: Many modern white-collar working arrangements offer those chances in spades.
To the fellow readers, I implore you: If you don't have an idea what to do with your life - what success looks like for you - you're probably on a bad trajectory. You have to seriously sit yourself down one quiet evening and get it down in writing what it could be you want out of life or those decisions will be made by other people for you, without taking your wishes into consideration.
This is spot-on. I’m learning that I don’t have a laziness problem (I thought I did) or a character problem (I know I don’t, but why do I feel bad?), but a lack of vision problem. What’s the point here? Great piece.
Jack: I really, really liked this piece. I think you absolutely nailed it. The years go by as you think you’re getting away with something. The reality is that you are wasting the best years of your life that only sucks you deeper and deeper into the vortex. Once you get into that vortex it almost brainwashes you into thinking that you are beating the system. In reality the opportunity cost far outweighs the benefits. Meanwhile throngs of college kids look at the money and the prestige and blindly follow your path. Great writing. Great perspective.
I appreciate this take, having felt in my life I've been both apathetic and hustling. Those extreme are needed, and ideally a temporary juncture, to find the middle way.
The scariest thought for me is living the same exact comfortable life I have 10 years from now. You don’t have to grind or be ultra ambitious but investing small amounts of time into something meaningful every day can have a compounding effect over decades.
Great stuff as always, but you’re missing one of the most incredible and intentional part of any life: kids.
I was having these thoughts before having mine too. I thought I needed to do great things to make this a life worth living. Nearly 5 years and 2 young souls later, career prospects are just one among many secondary things in life to me. They are the best reason to wake up everyday and cherish that cozy email job that provides the security they need to thrive.
If you ever have kids, do me the favor of waiting a year or two and then rereading that piece of yours again. It might sound quite a bit different then it did before.
Agree Jo - our 5 kids are now incredible adults who have brought so much meaning and joy to our lives….Not to mention kept us so busy we couldn’t wallow in existential dread! Putting their needs before ours for 25 years was the best way to achieve personal growth (and provided the financial imperative for professional growth too). I enjoyed a stellar career as they got older, but no professional achievement comes remotely close to the pride and accomplishment I feel for having raised decent, responsible, kind and caring human beings. In my view, it ought to be on everyone’s “to do” list if they want a meaningful life.
Parents do feel pressure to provide stability for children because the social system isn’t sufficient to protect them. It’s difficult to resist the existential pull to “compete” for the fullest life possible, but every stage of life calls for different degrees of risk and raising children has enough already. It would be great if we could do “email jobs” and also connect with each other through work and look to those jobs to support us, but that is pretty much non existent now. It makes raising children incredibly fraught with stress for the vast majority of people.
I think the kids question is a really important one to explore. I've really struggled with the decision of whether or not to have them at all, and a good bit of that struggle comes from not wanting to give up a comfortable life where I can have it all and retire early. People with higher incomes put off having kids longer and longer, and many opt to not have kids at all. And it makes sense. Kids take your independence and freedom, your money, your energy, and your time. That's all you ever had to begin with.
I've come to the conclusion that for me personally, kids make sense. But I'm having to lean into knowing my life will be much less comfortable.
I’m a 26yo blue collar worker that struggled with my mental health tremendously a few years back during university. I never graduated. I attended a reputable university for 6 years and failed to turn in my final paper for a seminar class. Navigating higher education and thinking about the prospect of a specific career when everything interested me filled me with so much anxiety and existential dread that I simply couldn’t function toward the end there when it mattered most. Now all my educated friends are the target audience for this piece as they find themselves questioning their apathy and purpose in high paying comfortable careers; but then there’s me, on the outside looking in to what life could have been. If anything, this article has reaffirmed to me that the only way to actually live a decent life is to go back and finish my education. The only paths in life I’m passionate about require it. It seems like such a small step for most here but at this point it’s the only thing that will give my life any meaning or hope. I want to have the problems that these people have, not struggling to buy food after rent and 12 hour days of back breaking manual labor 6 days a week. Overall this is a good article with an insightful message, even if we’re not remotely the target audience
I’m a poor person, I’m here mostly due to my own poor choices and accept rule and domination by my social betters. My problem is how embarrassingly pathetic you guys are. You openly admit to being unproductive and frame this, as a personal problem rather than a societal problem for everyone else. Somehow you have no shame in posting this onto a public forum. Reading posts like this makes me pray for a Chinese military dictatorship
You've got a point there. I don't see myself as someone dominated by my social betters but as a small business owner I can't fathom how scores of highly paid workers spend their working days like this. Something is really off with big corporations yes they stack up nearly all the money to be had in our societies.
My favorite thing about this piece is just how exactly you made the case.
I mean, we've all read the "you should get off TikTok," and the encouragement to be more ambitious, and the "our jobs suck now." That stuff.
But the way you made the case was much more compelling - like, you have made it look absolutely silly and depressing to sit around wasting one's time. Which is a good thing.
In my own case, I'm not an ambitious person by nature. I'm just terrified, to my core, of waking up a year from now having done nothing. Therefore, I refuse to waste my time. I insist on trying interesting stuff.
Cool piece.
Thank you! A little existential dread can be good for the soul.
LIVE your life with purpose:)
Not to be dramatic, but I think this is the article I was looking for when I started subscribing to Substacks.
Desk-job induced apathy is such a struggle for me right now and it is so hard to find people writing about it. One reason might be reluctance of people who have easy, high-paying jobs with a nice-enough boss, to say that it can still be a miserable experience. A lot of people might dismiss that as whiny when there are people who can barely afford rent and food.
I have tried leaning into doing the bare-minimum at a job I don't care about but that gives me a healthy salary and benefits. But the expectation that I be accessible most of the normal 8-hour day even if I'm not doing any real work means that I still don't have the brain space to pursue my interests. It is hard to really engage with a book if I've got an ear open for a Slack notification. I work in tech and there are not any part-time developer jobs but I would absolutely kill for one.
It's interesting you mention index funds -- having money set aside for retirement is a major reason I stick with the career I've got, plus health insurance and housing costs. My tech job isn't UBI, it's got a 40 hours of availability and ~15 hours of work requirement attached.
I was just chatting with some friends about this exact topic, and then I came across this piece—talk about a sign! It's really thought-provoking and has me re-evaluating some of my own decisions. Thanks for sharing!
I enjoy my easy email job and like spending my time reading Young Money and many other blogs/newletters to pass the time (including during work hours). I also enjoy streaming mindless movies, shows and sporting events. Call me a loser but I rather chill instead of learning a different languages (I've learned 3), playing a musical instrument (played for 15 years), start a business (too much work) or other more "productive" activities. I did the Top MBA thing, did the management consulting gig then started climbing the corporate ladder but stepped off that fast track train in my 30s. Enjoying my family, getting plenty of sleep, exercising, doing some travelling (not as much as I'd like due to family needs) and having plenty of time to chill might be apathy but it suits me and my loved ones just fine. I won't have much of a legacy but who does? Outside the 1 in a billion like Ghandi or Einsten, is anyone really remembered a few years after they die? Will anyone really remember who the senior partners at Mckinsey were 10 years after they leave? Did those folks really make even a somewhat meaningful contribution to society (I sure those narrcisits think they have).
I don't mean to sound negative or troll this post. But not everyone needs lofty goals, the need to feel hyper-productive or "live life to the max". In the end, it's all about living a life without regret. I'm enjoying my email job and life of chill. Maybe I'll get restless after a few more years of this but I ain't changing it now cause I'm still enjoying it.
I don't think you're trolling. In fact, it sounds like you did it right. Learning 3 languages, playing an instrument, starting a business, and enjoying your family is far from apathetic.
More importantly, it sounds like you chose your life instead of sleepwalking into it.
well said Phillip
Hi Jack, I really appreciate this piece. The horror of wasting away our lives because we can is real - I have thought a lot about this, since I am prone to being passive and lazy when I get the chance to be. As you correctly diagnose: Many modern white-collar working arrangements offer those chances in spades.
To the fellow readers, I implore you: If you don't have an idea what to do with your life - what success looks like for you - you're probably on a bad trajectory. You have to seriously sit yourself down one quiet evening and get it down in writing what it could be you want out of life or those decisions will be made by other people for you, without taking your wishes into consideration.
This is spot-on. I’m learning that I don’t have a laziness problem (I thought I did) or a character problem (I know I don’t, but why do I feel bad?), but a lack of vision problem. What’s the point here? Great piece.
Jack: I really, really liked this piece. I think you absolutely nailed it. The years go by as you think you’re getting away with something. The reality is that you are wasting the best years of your life that only sucks you deeper and deeper into the vortex. Once you get into that vortex it almost brainwashes you into thinking that you are beating the system. In reality the opportunity cost far outweighs the benefits. Meanwhile throngs of college kids look at the money and the prestige and blindly follow your path. Great writing. Great perspective.
Tom Greene
Thanks Tom, I appreciate you!
Great article, Jack - and well-timed for my own personal journey!
New reader, friend forwarded this.
I appreciate this take, having felt in my life I've been both apathetic and hustling. Those extreme are needed, and ideally a temporary juncture, to find the middle way.
All things in moderation, including moderation.
Jack coming for our hearts and heads!
The scariest thought for me is living the same exact comfortable life I have 10 years from now. You don’t have to grind or be ultra ambitious but investing small amounts of time into something meaningful every day can have a compounding effect over decades.
Great stuff as always, but you’re missing one of the most incredible and intentional part of any life: kids.
I was having these thoughts before having mine too. I thought I needed to do great things to make this a life worth living. Nearly 5 years and 2 young souls later, career prospects are just one among many secondary things in life to me. They are the best reason to wake up everyday and cherish that cozy email job that provides the security they need to thrive.
If you ever have kids, do me the favor of waiting a year or two and then rereading that piece of yours again. It might sound quite a bit different then it did before.
Agree Jo - our 5 kids are now incredible adults who have brought so much meaning and joy to our lives….Not to mention kept us so busy we couldn’t wallow in existential dread! Putting their needs before ours for 25 years was the best way to achieve personal growth (and provided the financial imperative for professional growth too). I enjoyed a stellar career as they got older, but no professional achievement comes remotely close to the pride and accomplishment I feel for having raised decent, responsible, kind and caring human beings. In my view, it ought to be on everyone’s “to do” list if they want a meaningful life.
Parents do feel pressure to provide stability for children because the social system isn’t sufficient to protect them. It’s difficult to resist the existential pull to “compete” for the fullest life possible, but every stage of life calls for different degrees of risk and raising children has enough already. It would be great if we could do “email jobs” and also connect with each other through work and look to those jobs to support us, but that is pretty much non existent now. It makes raising children incredibly fraught with stress for the vast majority of people.
Ok, I’m glad I’m not the only person who thought this!
I think the kids question is a really important one to explore. I've really struggled with the decision of whether or not to have them at all, and a good bit of that struggle comes from not wanting to give up a comfortable life where I can have it all and retire early. People with higher incomes put off having kids longer and longer, and many opt to not have kids at all. And it makes sense. Kids take your independence and freedom, your money, your energy, and your time. That's all you ever had to begin with.
I've come to the conclusion that for me personally, kids make sense. But I'm having to lean into knowing my life will be much less comfortable.
This may have changed my life....thank you.
I have a really important question, why do you blog on substack, do you even earn> and how do you actually earn as you cant put in ads.
this feels like such a first world problem. i would have to strive so hard to obtain the kind of life you call "apathetic".
i understand however that this post is probably not aimed at people like me
I’m a 26yo blue collar worker that struggled with my mental health tremendously a few years back during university. I never graduated. I attended a reputable university for 6 years and failed to turn in my final paper for a seminar class. Navigating higher education and thinking about the prospect of a specific career when everything interested me filled me with so much anxiety and existential dread that I simply couldn’t function toward the end there when it mattered most. Now all my educated friends are the target audience for this piece as they find themselves questioning their apathy and purpose in high paying comfortable careers; but then there’s me, on the outside looking in to what life could have been. If anything, this article has reaffirmed to me that the only way to actually live a decent life is to go back and finish my education. The only paths in life I’m passionate about require it. It seems like such a small step for most here but at this point it’s the only thing that will give my life any meaning or hope. I want to have the problems that these people have, not struggling to buy food after rent and 12 hour days of back breaking manual labor 6 days a week. Overall this is a good article with an insightful message, even if we’re not remotely the target audience
I’m a poor person, I’m here mostly due to my own poor choices and accept rule and domination by my social betters. My problem is how embarrassingly pathetic you guys are. You openly admit to being unproductive and frame this, as a personal problem rather than a societal problem for everyone else. Somehow you have no shame in posting this onto a public forum. Reading posts like this makes me pray for a Chinese military dictatorship
You've got a point there. I don't see myself as someone dominated by my social betters but as a small business owner I can't fathom how scores of highly paid workers spend their working days like this. Something is really off with big corporations yes they stack up nearly all the money to be had in our societies.