My favorite thing about this piece is just how exactly you made the case.
I mean, we've all read the "you should get off TikTok," and the encouragement to be more ambitious, and the "our jobs suck now." That stuff.
But the way you made the case was much more compelling - like, you have made it look absolutely silly and depressing to sit around wasting one's time. Which is a good thing.
In my own case, I'm not an ambitious person by nature. I'm just terrified, to my core, of waking up a year from now having done nothing. Therefore, I refuse to waste my time. I insist on trying interesting stuff.
Not to be dramatic, but I think this is the article I was looking for when I started subscribing to Substacks.
Desk-job induced apathy is such a struggle for me right now and it is so hard to find people writing about it. One reason might be reluctance of people who have easy, high-paying jobs with a nice-enough boss, to say that it can still be a miserable experience. A lot of people might dismiss that as whiny when there are people who can barely afford rent and food.
I have tried leaning into doing the bare-minimum at a job I don't care about but that gives me a healthy salary and benefits. But the expectation that I be accessible most of the normal 8-hour day even if I'm not doing any real work means that I still don't have the brain space to pursue my interests. It is hard to really engage with a book if I've got an ear open for a Slack notification. I work in tech and there are not any part-time developer jobs but I would absolutely kill for one.
It's interesting you mention index funds -- having money set aside for retirement is a major reason I stick with the career I've got, plus health insurance and housing costs. My tech job isn't UBI, it's got a 40 hours of availability and ~15 hours of work requirement attached.
I enjoy my easy email job and like spending my time reading Young Money and many other blogs/newletters to pass the time (including during work hours). I also enjoy streaming mindless movies, shows and sporting events. Call me a loser but I rather chill instead of learning a different languages (I've learned 3), playing a musical instrument (played for 15 years), start a business (too much work) or other more "productive" activities. I did the Top MBA thing, did the management consulting gig then started climbing the corporate ladder but stepped off that fast track train in my 30s. Enjoying my family, getting plenty of sleep, exercising, doing some travelling (not as much as I'd like due to family needs) and having plenty of time to chill might be apathy but it suits me and my loved ones just fine. I won't have much of a legacy but who does? Outside the 1 in a billion like Ghandi or Einsten, is anyone really remembered a few years after they die? Will anyone really remember who the senior partners at Mckinsey were 10 years after they leave? Did those folks really make even a somewhat meaningful contribution to society (I sure those narrcisits think they have).
I don't mean to sound negative or troll this post. But not everyone needs lofty goals, the need to feel hyper-productive or "live life to the max". In the end, it's all about living a life without regret. I'm enjoying my email job and life of chill. Maybe I'll get restless after a few more years of this but I ain't changing it now cause I'm still enjoying it.
I don't think you're trolling. In fact, it sounds like you did it right. Learning 3 languages, playing an instrument, starting a business, and enjoying your family is far from apathetic.
More importantly, it sounds like you chose your life instead of sleepwalking into it.
I was just chatting with some friends about this exact topic, and then I came across this piece—talk about a sign! It's really thought-provoking and has me re-evaluating some of my own decisions. Thanks for sharing!
Hi Jack, I really appreciate this piece. The horror of wasting away our lives because we can is real - I have thought a lot about this, since I am prone to being passive and lazy when I get the chance to be. As you correctly diagnose: Many modern white-collar working arrangements offer those chances in spades.
To the fellow readers, I implore you: If you don't have an idea what to do with your life - what success looks like for you - you're probably on a bad trajectory. You have to seriously sit yourself down one quiet evening and get it down in writing what it could be you want out of life or those decisions will be made by other people for you, without taking your wishes into consideration.
Hi Eric! I would recommend to clear the calendar for one evening, banish all distractions and just sit down with the question "What would success look like for me" - ideally with a piece of physical paper. Write down all that comes to mind and question yourself why you think that for a solid hour or two and you'll be surprised how much clarity you already carried within you on what's important and what's not.
This is spot-on. I’m learning that I don’t have a laziness problem (I thought I did) or a character problem (I know I don’t, but why do I feel bad?), but a lack of vision problem. What’s the point here? Great piece.
Jack: I really, really liked this piece. I think you absolutely nailed it. The years go by as you think you’re getting away with something. The reality is that you are wasting the best years of your life that only sucks you deeper and deeper into the vortex. Once you get into that vortex it almost brainwashes you into thinking that you are beating the system. In reality the opportunity cost far outweighs the benefits. Meanwhile throngs of college kids look at the money and the prestige and blindly follow your path. Great writing. Great perspective.
So many delightful nuggets that if I highlighted everything that resonated with me, it'd be completely neon yellow.
I notice the seduction more relevant nowadays with AI, where even the most basic challenges are quartered and shipped to a machine to complete so you have more time for... idk gambling on basketball.
Apathy is inherently seductive, but more seriously it's contagious. If you hang around unambitious people you'll notice yourself slipping away too. That's why university can be such a polarizing experience, everyone there is extremely competent, so they have the capacity to pave their own way, but they also have the ability to enjoy the basic comforts of their competence, discouraging risk and ambition.
I appreciate this take, having felt in my life I've been both apathetic and hustling. Those extreme are needed, and ideally a temporary juncture, to find the middle way.
The scariest thought for me is living the same exact comfortable life I have 10 years from now. You don’t have to grind or be ultra ambitious but investing small amounts of time into something meaningful every day can have a compounding effect over decades.
Great stuff as always, but you’re missing one of the most incredible and intentional part of any life: kids.
I was having these thoughts before having mine too. I thought I needed to do great things to make this a life worth living. Nearly 5 years and 2 young souls later, career prospects are just one among many secondary things in life to me. They are the best reason to wake up everyday and cherish that cozy email job that provides the security they need to thrive.
If you ever have kids, do me the favor of waiting a year or two and then rereading that piece of yours again. It might sound quite a bit different then it did before.
Agree Jo - our 5 kids are now incredible adults who have brought so much meaning and joy to our lives….Not to mention kept us so busy we couldn’t wallow in existential dread! Putting their needs before ours for 25 years was the best way to achieve personal growth (and provided the financial imperative for professional growth too). I enjoyed a stellar career as they got older, but no professional achievement comes remotely close to the pride and accomplishment I feel for having raised decent, responsible, kind and caring human beings. In my view, it ought to be on everyone’s “to do” list if they want a meaningful life.
Parents do feel pressure to provide stability for children because the social system isn’t sufficient to protect them. It’s difficult to resist the existential pull to “compete” for the fullest life possible, but every stage of life calls for different degrees of risk and raising children has enough already. It would be great if we could do “email jobs” and also connect with each other through work and look to those jobs to support us, but that is pretty much non existent now. It makes raising children incredibly fraught with stress for the vast majority of people.
With a one year old now. This piece really resonate with me but at the same time I’m unclear how I can define my vision, purpose, meaning with a kid that takes my time, energy and money, beyond obviously loving and cherishing them.
I think the kids question is a really important one to explore. I've really struggled with the decision of whether or not to have them at all, and a good bit of that struggle comes from not wanting to give up a comfortable life where I can have it all and retire early. People with higher incomes put off having kids longer and longer, and many opt to not have kids at all. And it makes sense. Kids take your independence and freedom, your money, your energy, and your time. That's all you ever had to begin with.
I've come to the conclusion that for me personally, kids make sense. But I'm having to lean into knowing my life will be much less comfortable.
'Living means being the protagonist of your own story, not a passenger whose outcomes are at the mercy of their environment.'
I am going to read the rest of this article later, but I couldn't help spotting this quote. As a Christian, I believe living means relinquishing your desires for the greater glory of God. There are tons of people who enjoy wild success *and* enjoy what they do and still end up empty. I direct you to the countless celebrity suicides of people who were supposedly "living their best life." While you get at the root of the issue, the root is still firmly in the ground. Being the "protagonist of your own story" is yet another self-defeating lifestyle that can only lead to constant self-comparison and existential angst. if it's *you" you're living for, your reason for living is as fragile as your next personal tragedy/setback.
We have an entire generation that has been deluded into thinking they are the center of the universe. Is it any wonder we are suffering from a mental health epidemic. People need some level of self-transcendence to get out of their own heads and care about something of eternal value. That only comes through Christ. I don't care if you're technically "living your best life" or not.
I understand where you are coming from in this piece and it's important. In reality, most people in the world are struggling mightily due to capture of the economy by the hoarders of wealth. So perhaps here's an idea? Use your short time on this earth to help equalize the playing field so there's more collective "life, liberty and pursuit of happiness." So many ways to do this. Supporting people on the inside who are courageous enough to take on the hoarders, whose brains have leeched empathy as their bank accounts have grown.
Who would that be? Maybe it looks like following the example and needs of brave young people who make up Justice Dems and the Squad, who need all the support and hands-on help they can get.
I worked on Wall Street many years ago, then when I was 33, couldn't imagine that making money with money was a good way of using my life. I've drilled down to the lack of voice and power that most people feel. Now I'm involved in trying to do things that value the collective, that equalize voice and power. Hard, isolating work, two steps forward, one step back. But at least (once I had enough money in the bank to survive, which is nothing to take for granted) I picked this path, it didn't pick me.
Hope you write more columns like this one. Much more interesting than self-interest and money.
My favorite thing about this piece is just how exactly you made the case.
I mean, we've all read the "you should get off TikTok," and the encouragement to be more ambitious, and the "our jobs suck now." That stuff.
But the way you made the case was much more compelling - like, you have made it look absolutely silly and depressing to sit around wasting one's time. Which is a good thing.
In my own case, I'm not an ambitious person by nature. I'm just terrified, to my core, of waking up a year from now having done nothing. Therefore, I refuse to waste my time. I insist on trying interesting stuff.
Cool piece.
Thank you! A little existential dread can be good for the soul.
LIVE your life with purpose:)
Not to be dramatic, but I think this is the article I was looking for when I started subscribing to Substacks.
Desk-job induced apathy is such a struggle for me right now and it is so hard to find people writing about it. One reason might be reluctance of people who have easy, high-paying jobs with a nice-enough boss, to say that it can still be a miserable experience. A lot of people might dismiss that as whiny when there are people who can barely afford rent and food.
I have tried leaning into doing the bare-minimum at a job I don't care about but that gives me a healthy salary and benefits. But the expectation that I be accessible most of the normal 8-hour day even if I'm not doing any real work means that I still don't have the brain space to pursue my interests. It is hard to really engage with a book if I've got an ear open for a Slack notification. I work in tech and there are not any part-time developer jobs but I would absolutely kill for one.
It's interesting you mention index funds -- having money set aside for retirement is a major reason I stick with the career I've got, plus health insurance and housing costs. My tech job isn't UBI, it's got a 40 hours of availability and ~15 hours of work requirement attached.
I enjoy my easy email job and like spending my time reading Young Money and many other blogs/newletters to pass the time (including during work hours). I also enjoy streaming mindless movies, shows and sporting events. Call me a loser but I rather chill instead of learning a different languages (I've learned 3), playing a musical instrument (played for 15 years), start a business (too much work) or other more "productive" activities. I did the Top MBA thing, did the management consulting gig then started climbing the corporate ladder but stepped off that fast track train in my 30s. Enjoying my family, getting plenty of sleep, exercising, doing some travelling (not as much as I'd like due to family needs) and having plenty of time to chill might be apathy but it suits me and my loved ones just fine. I won't have much of a legacy but who does? Outside the 1 in a billion like Ghandi or Einsten, is anyone really remembered a few years after they die? Will anyone really remember who the senior partners at Mckinsey were 10 years after they leave? Did those folks really make even a somewhat meaningful contribution to society (I sure those narrcisits think they have).
I don't mean to sound negative or troll this post. But not everyone needs lofty goals, the need to feel hyper-productive or "live life to the max". In the end, it's all about living a life without regret. I'm enjoying my email job and life of chill. Maybe I'll get restless after a few more years of this but I ain't changing it now cause I'm still enjoying it.
I don't think you're trolling. In fact, it sounds like you did it right. Learning 3 languages, playing an instrument, starting a business, and enjoying your family is far from apathetic.
More importantly, it sounds like you chose your life instead of sleepwalking into it.
well said Phillip
I was just chatting with some friends about this exact topic, and then I came across this piece—talk about a sign! It's really thought-provoking and has me re-evaluating some of my own decisions. Thanks for sharing!
Hi Jack, I really appreciate this piece. The horror of wasting away our lives because we can is real - I have thought a lot about this, since I am prone to being passive and lazy when I get the chance to be. As you correctly diagnose: Many modern white-collar working arrangements offer those chances in spades.
To the fellow readers, I implore you: If you don't have an idea what to do with your life - what success looks like for you - you're probably on a bad trajectory. You have to seriously sit yourself down one quiet evening and get it down in writing what it could be you want out of life or those decisions will be made by other people for you, without taking your wishes into consideration.
Any process you recommend to do that? I never know how to start and do that
Hi Eric! I would recommend to clear the calendar for one evening, banish all distractions and just sit down with the question "What would success look like for me" - ideally with a piece of physical paper. Write down all that comes to mind and question yourself why you think that for a solid hour or two and you'll be surprised how much clarity you already carried within you on what's important and what's not.
This is spot-on. I’m learning that I don’t have a laziness problem (I thought I did) or a character problem (I know I don’t, but why do I feel bad?), but a lack of vision problem. What’s the point here? Great piece.
Jack: I really, really liked this piece. I think you absolutely nailed it. The years go by as you think you’re getting away with something. The reality is that you are wasting the best years of your life that only sucks you deeper and deeper into the vortex. Once you get into that vortex it almost brainwashes you into thinking that you are beating the system. In reality the opportunity cost far outweighs the benefits. Meanwhile throngs of college kids look at the money and the prestige and blindly follow your path. Great writing. Great perspective.
Tom Greene
Thanks Tom, I appreciate you!
So many delightful nuggets that if I highlighted everything that resonated with me, it'd be completely neon yellow.
I notice the seduction more relevant nowadays with AI, where even the most basic challenges are quartered and shipped to a machine to complete so you have more time for... idk gambling on basketball.
Apathy is inherently seductive, but more seriously it's contagious. If you hang around unambitious people you'll notice yourself slipping away too. That's why university can be such a polarizing experience, everyone there is extremely competent, so they have the capacity to pave their own way, but they also have the ability to enjoy the basic comforts of their competence, discouraging risk and ambition.
Great article, Jack - and well-timed for my own personal journey!
New reader, friend forwarded this.
I appreciate this take, having felt in my life I've been both apathetic and hustling. Those extreme are needed, and ideally a temporary juncture, to find the middle way.
All things in moderation, including moderation.
Jack coming for our hearts and heads!
The scariest thought for me is living the same exact comfortable life I have 10 years from now. You don’t have to grind or be ultra ambitious but investing small amounts of time into something meaningful every day can have a compounding effect over decades.
Great stuff as always, but you’re missing one of the most incredible and intentional part of any life: kids.
I was having these thoughts before having mine too. I thought I needed to do great things to make this a life worth living. Nearly 5 years and 2 young souls later, career prospects are just one among many secondary things in life to me. They are the best reason to wake up everyday and cherish that cozy email job that provides the security they need to thrive.
If you ever have kids, do me the favor of waiting a year or two and then rereading that piece of yours again. It might sound quite a bit different then it did before.
Agree Jo - our 5 kids are now incredible adults who have brought so much meaning and joy to our lives….Not to mention kept us so busy we couldn’t wallow in existential dread! Putting their needs before ours for 25 years was the best way to achieve personal growth (and provided the financial imperative for professional growth too). I enjoyed a stellar career as they got older, but no professional achievement comes remotely close to the pride and accomplishment I feel for having raised decent, responsible, kind and caring human beings. In my view, it ought to be on everyone’s “to do” list if they want a meaningful life.
Parents do feel pressure to provide stability for children because the social system isn’t sufficient to protect them. It’s difficult to resist the existential pull to “compete” for the fullest life possible, but every stage of life calls for different degrees of risk and raising children has enough already. It would be great if we could do “email jobs” and also connect with each other through work and look to those jobs to support us, but that is pretty much non existent now. It makes raising children incredibly fraught with stress for the vast majority of people.
Ok, I’m glad I’m not the only person who thought this!
With a one year old now. This piece really resonate with me but at the same time I’m unclear how I can define my vision, purpose, meaning with a kid that takes my time, energy and money, beyond obviously loving and cherishing them.
I think the kids question is a really important one to explore. I've really struggled with the decision of whether or not to have them at all, and a good bit of that struggle comes from not wanting to give up a comfortable life where I can have it all and retire early. People with higher incomes put off having kids longer and longer, and many opt to not have kids at all. And it makes sense. Kids take your independence and freedom, your money, your energy, and your time. That's all you ever had to begin with.
I've come to the conclusion that for me personally, kids make sense. But I'm having to lean into knowing my life will be much less comfortable.
'Living means being the protagonist of your own story, not a passenger whose outcomes are at the mercy of their environment.'
I am going to read the rest of this article later, but I couldn't help spotting this quote. As a Christian, I believe living means relinquishing your desires for the greater glory of God. There are tons of people who enjoy wild success *and* enjoy what they do and still end up empty. I direct you to the countless celebrity suicides of people who were supposedly "living their best life." While you get at the root of the issue, the root is still firmly in the ground. Being the "protagonist of your own story" is yet another self-defeating lifestyle that can only lead to constant self-comparison and existential angst. if it's *you" you're living for, your reason for living is as fragile as your next personal tragedy/setback.
We have an entire generation that has been deluded into thinking they are the center of the universe. Is it any wonder we are suffering from a mental health epidemic. People need some level of self-transcendence to get out of their own heads and care about something of eternal value. That only comes through Christ. I don't care if you're technically "living your best life" or not.
I understand where you are coming from in this piece and it's important. In reality, most people in the world are struggling mightily due to capture of the economy by the hoarders of wealth. So perhaps here's an idea? Use your short time on this earth to help equalize the playing field so there's more collective "life, liberty and pursuit of happiness." So many ways to do this. Supporting people on the inside who are courageous enough to take on the hoarders, whose brains have leeched empathy as their bank accounts have grown.
Who would that be? Maybe it looks like following the example and needs of brave young people who make up Justice Dems and the Squad, who need all the support and hands-on help they can get.
I worked on Wall Street many years ago, then when I was 33, couldn't imagine that making money with money was a good way of using my life. I've drilled down to the lack of voice and power that most people feel. Now I'm involved in trying to do things that value the collective, that equalize voice and power. Hard, isolating work, two steps forward, one step back. But at least (once I had enough money in the bank to survive, which is nothing to take for granted) I picked this path, it didn't pick me.
Hope you write more columns like this one. Much more interesting than self-interest and money.
This may have changed my life....thank you.